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Alt 04-19-2006, 05:24   #1
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Arent mages a laugh? ......

The true utility spells like mesmerizing are level restricted, perhaps they would too powerfull otherwise but I just cant seem to figure the logic of a mage.

At level 24 one has a sword that deals about 1200 damage (2 handed) and to achieve equivalent damage as a mage one has to use about 15% of the mana available ... which when added up doesnt really kill anything at your level.

The fighter however can keep going, he probably has full plate, a couple of very nifty protection spells and can probably emergency heal as well.

A true mage is supposed to fight from distance ... how on earth do you keep an even opponent at a certain distance as a mage? No chance amigo, you will get wacked most likely and in many ways the mage seems to be far inferior to the pure warrior.

One thing is certain, mana usage for certain spells is EXTREMELY high, and at low levels everyone seems to be doing the same and wearing almost the same gear.

An RPG in my oppinion should show a distinct difference between a character already from the beggining, in both equipment and abilities ... but 1 point in magic and 1 in combat ....errrmm .. then you will be using the same stuff throughout your young age.

I definately would have prefered more challenging encounters with no level limitation on a spell mesmerizing or other utility based spells which makes advanced tactics a viable option, currently when facing a tough challenge its either direct damage or healing.

But mages apart from healings arent worth it ... please enlighten me if you feel I am wrong with a good explanation.
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Alt 04-19-2006, 06:43   #2
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.... and please remember the following which is very important :

Many spells which besides costing far far too much mana are also on a timer and even though the mage has wands to rely on he still needs micro management in regard to movement at all times when he gets in close combat.

The warrior however can be left alone for a little while while you perhaps are busy healing someone, preparing a mage combo or doing something else which requires immediate attention, do that with your mage .. and he is dead before you know it.

In other words, besides using all mana in 3 spells and killing nothing .. you also have to move him out of harms way constantly.

PS: I do think SF 2 is a brilliant game, it has all the ingridients needed to be a classic with an indepth implemetation of good RTS and RPG elements. I just feel that the mage skills are extremely unbalanced towards a very very weak class.
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Alt 04-19-2006, 17:20   #3
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i agree, mages are quite weak. i only use them for healing so i keep them in the back while my warriors fight and use the mages to heal but most of the time a few enemies go past the warriors and attack my mages which is so annoying. if i try to even fight back with a mage then then the mage dies very fast, the only thing i could do with them is let them keep healing eachother, then they quickly run out of mana and still die.

i really like the game and mages were always my favorite, especially in SF1. but i'm really starting to hate mages now
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Alt 04-19-2006, 22:45   #4
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My mage seems to do fine at lvl 9. I could see why the mind spells etc would be useless later on, but I would assume that elemental area attacks would be awesome, since this is an RTS, the numbers of enemies are high. Am I wrong?

I am thinking that perhaps a spellsword would be optimal? Perhaps Sword/Ice or Dark Magic. Since you need to spend those extra points anyways, and getting both heavy and light is pretty useless, it seems and obvious choice. I'm already turning Bor into a paladin, tho the warrior skills offer some awesome self heals as it is...
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Alt 04-20-2006, 08:37   #5
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SPells are stronger every level you reach. There are less spells but they are awsome end game (earthquake mastery is really awsome). If your wizard are agro by monsters your warriors should have a taunt spell to take them off your wizzards, just use it and your wizzard will be free of agro.
Don't put them in fighter group but in escort or follow mode. It will prevent them to be in the center of the the fight.

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Alt 04-20-2006, 14:16   #6
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One of the only reasons I use mages is to make use of their DOTs and roots on massed enemies.

Aggro works effectively the same way in this game as it does in a MMORPG, and I made the habit of breaking up my avatar and heroes into 2 groups, the ranged group and the melee group.

Send in the melee group to make some monsters angry, then fire away with your archers / mages.

Works for me.
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Alt 04-20-2006, 17:08   #7
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The main utility I see for my mages is killing of the opposite sides mages and archers. That and healing.

So an enemy mage has 3k hp, you use your 3 mages with the earthquake (I think it was called that) spell and kill of about 8 or so of them in one go, then you can recast it twice or thrice depending on the char. There is no timer on that.

If surrounded use the firestorm or whatever the close area fire effect is called. Three people using that gives of around 4-6k damage as well, nothing to laugh at...

That and having them use ice wands/healing wands makes a huge difference in battles against groups, with those wands equiped you can leave them for a few secs when recovering mana. Against a single enemy they suck compared to a fighter at the same level though, I agree on that, my level 30 mage has slight troubles against 27 level chars in the campaign since I took the ones with best area effect. The eq is quite bad for mages as well up here, fighters get a higher armor class at level 24 unless you find some really good eq for mages... That and the mana regen is sadly not over 50% on any high end armor I've found. :/

(Though my xp is limited, just reached level 30 yesterday with three islands to go in the campain)
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Alt 04-20-2006, 19:40   #8
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Well, as I posted in the german section, mages are VITAL to a solid hero squad. The main roles of a mage can be broken down to:

1. Sniping: Extreme high (one shot) dmg spells to take out one dangerous enemy, spells would be DEATH in the death spell lines (very high dmg, if you have it on your main avatar you can even get the mastery spell for a very fast recharge and even higher dmg, this basically one shots opposing healers, other options are fireball, elemental projectile, and pain although DEATH tops them all.

2. Healing: EVERY mage should have the 2nd heal spell, with its 2s recharge it is spammeable and heals for a sizeable amount, the avatar can get the improvement (master level) that heals 1HP/Mana greatly increasing efficiency

3. AOE damage. This is the MAIN role for a mage. Stacked AOE kills, and it is VERY easy to stack them with the controls in SF. Select enemy and go through all your characters. Every one of mine has at least the basic AOE the mage toons and the avatar have higher level ones, the avatar goes through area of pain, fire storm while the others tend to stick to the basic aoe/fireball depending on spec... you can tear whole armies apart.

My fire aoe in the middle of an enemy zerg hits EACH enemy for 700 ish dmg and an additional burning dmg over time. I'm 100% sure thats more than any tank can dish out area of pain tends to hit between 1200->700 per enemy depending on how stacked they are. There is a reason they capped the dmg for most aoes (fire being the grand exception) In coop mode ALL of my brother + my heroes have the aoe, basically nothing holds up to that. He's a tank, he runs up, uses his 75% dmg absorb+HUGE INSANE AOE TAUNT. Every single mob on the screen fixates him and ignores EVERYTHING else. Then 6xaoe on them and we're looking for the next army

An army is FOUNDED on smart mage useage. I strongly suggest your avatar being a mage as thats when you can REALLY go wild (I was spamming aoe's while sniping down the opponents druids with Mastered DEATH spell, one shot kills ) ofc its up to you as a high level warrior can sink up the dmg but between all my heals, the 75% absorb buff etc my warriors never die.

Note: 75% less dmg is calculated BEFORE armor so warriors tend to not take any melee damage with that buff up, add the mage 100% absorb bubble and you're really talking.

Mages are the cornerstone of a hero squad that goes out and whipes armies WITHOUT an army
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Alt 04-21-2006, 05:20   #9
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Well, thats what makes the mage challenging, my dark mage carries two daggers, and is fully capable of protecting himself when mana is low. You see, mages are more suited to specialize in one or two fields, unlike warriors who can do everything with anything except magic. Get a good lvled ice spell and some dark magic, maybe a healing spell and your all set, then just juice those up and a true mage will result, with a little TLC.
Funny, every war ever faught in the history of the world was faught to keep some kind of peace, either good or bad... W T F
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Alt 04-21-2006, 09:15   #10
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mages are only good when there are a larger group then the enemy.
But mages are my favorite type of people, so i just make them, and its gonna be a blood bad T.T . But the mages must be stronger in my opinion
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Alt 04-21-2006, 10:27   #11
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any stronger and I'd completely skip making melee and know i'll have a tough time initially but blow anything up later on
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Alt 04-21-2006, 16:19   #12
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Well, I dont think a mage whould wait till level 20 to be more versatile, I dont understand why fire/ice spells arent available early on .. I guess I just liked the SF 1 spells a lot .. I loved being a young icemage and blasting them small spiders and goblins ....

If you build a mage he will look the same till level ?? .... and I believe he should be fun to play at all levels .. not only when he is able to cast the higher end spells.

I remember in SF 1 how much time I would use puzzling around with a mentalist early on, casting mirror image .. trying to dominate some annoying goblin .. then run like hell .. then proceed to swear about why my shock spell didnt do more damage forgetting the lack of intelligence.

.. and the auras .. I miss those ... I guess wands make up for them now to some measure.

But there was so much more you could do with a newbie character .. now all level 10 mages have the same spells ..
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Alt 04-29-2006, 22:08   #13
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I dont know are you guys noobs... but you surely can taunt them off with warrior. or put couple points on light combat. and get skill to lure enemy off your mage.
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Alt 04-30-2006, 13:04   #14
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I would also like to point out that there are more damage enhancing gear available for magic damage than for melee or ranged damage. My main character uses mainly black magic and I have collected enough gear to boost my black magic damage by about 65%. This makes AOE spells very nice and the 0 sec recharge Master Pain does a nice amount of damage too.
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Alt 04-30-2006, 15:23   #15
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Im wondering, my avatar is based on both magic and fighting skills. perhaps thats not a great idea beacause i will not reach max level on any of them?

What do you think?

And why is it that you must use some skills point on armor as well, and i cant use everything just on weapons?
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Alt 04-30-2006, 16:45   #16
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After playing up till as a level 12 mage, i just rerolled to a fighter.

I didnt do much damage tbh, but mostly because of the micromanage i had to do everytime i needed to use various spells as a mage, this game could really do with some auto cast functions for abilities. If the maps involves only my heroes then my spells were in use but in major battles (rts) i just didnt get the time to use any spells, not that it matter'd anyway. It also do seem rather tedious that you wont get any great magic abilities untill your at max level.

Whould also have given my right kidney for a pause function type of mode in SF2, so one could make properly use of magic & fighting abilities. Atm when fighting with heroes + a big mass of troops i rarely use any abilities on my heroes because they are either stuck between regulary troops trying to pathfind themself out, or the fight is over to quickly.

Such a shame you cant pause and order units around ect.
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Alt 02-24-2015, 11:40   #17
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I think mages are an important part of an army. There are many combinations which can be vital to a good hero squad. You always need to differ between the two cases whether you have an army or not. For example, if you have 1 or 2 good healers and only have your hero squad, consider burning blood. 70% more damage (on master) for all your hero companions is a huge boost. Of course they will die, but if your black mage is good at either running away or healing himself / standing his ground through either life stealing, armour protection or healing, he can call back the rest of the hero squad in no time. And usually, you will succeed in beating the enemy with 170% of your hero squad :P

Also as said before, AoE spells can really make the difference. Some enemies are really heavily armoured or are just too dangerous to face in melee. Or there are units to be taken out quickly. There's nothing better in taking a city than earthquake. Nothing is that versatile as the Elemental Projectile. Nothing more deadly than the death spell itself, nothing as punishing as holy wrath.

But also combining magic & combat is a good option. For example you can make a real Paladin by using Plate armour (and possibly tower shields) and Divine Retribution. An archer with magical projectiles or control abilities (unequip melee weapon btw) can make a nifty addition. Or also as said before, a melee fighter with an AoE like Fire storm or Dark Stream (good self heal & dmg btw) can be a real wonder. Or a melee warrior with a shaikan tree companion.

When we're already on the tactical side: Some fighters with Fighting staffs are probably the best melee control ability: Just use the whirlwind to stun the enemies around you for quite a while. Even better because that stun has no level cap and even stuns the strongest enemy (although shorter).
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Alt 02-24-2015, 12:26   #18
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Thank you for your insight but did you also notice that the last post in this threads is from almost 10 (!) years ago?
I'd be greatful if you wouldn't cast necromancy on such old threads.

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